Episode 23: Location: Urban or rural, in-state or out-of-state?

Episode 23 Transcript

• Episode 23 Transcript

  [00:00:05] BW: Choosing a college home is a bit like choosing an actual home. It should be the perfect size, offer the features you want, and feel safe and comfortable.

  [00:00:14] BT: Just like shopping for a house, searching for a college starts with that one key word: location.

  [00:00:20] BW: I'm Bryan Wendell from Bucknell University. In this episode of College Admissions Insider, we’ll search far and wide to bring you the best advice on how to consider a school's geographic location when planning your college search. What factors should you absolutely keep in mind and which might you be okay to ignore?

  [00:00:38] BT: I'm Brooke Thames also from Bucknell, and we are joined by Candace Leake, Bucknell’s associate director of admissions for access and outreach. Candace works with high school students in eight different states, coordinates off campus and on campus experiences for high schoolers, and handles Bucknell’s diversity equity & inclusion initiatives within admissions. Welcome back to the podcast, Candace.

  [00:00:59] CL: Thank you so much for having me back.

  [00:01:01] BW: Yeah, we're really excited. Let's just get started with proximity to home, which I think you're uniquely equipped to talk about because you've worked with students from all over the country, including some who ended up at Bucknell that grew up on the West Coast, California and Arizona. So in your experience, how should students and families look at that factor — that miles from their home to the university they're looking at when they're starting to compile a list of schools?

  [00:01:26] CL: That's a really great question. I think when you're thinking about proximity to home, that's really something that you identify for yourself, right? For some students, proximity may be a certain driving distance; you may say, no more than four hours or six hours. Or it could be, “I would to stay on a particular coast.” If you're from the West Coast, and you would to stay west. Or it could be, “I want to be in the in the East Coast, or I would to stay in the Midwest.” Really, proximity is what you make it. It could also be a certain distance by train or by plane. Maybe your boundaries are, “I would to be within a two hour plane ride.” It's really about what you want that to look like.

  But, I want you to think about why are you making that limitation or characteristic for yourself? Does that proximity really mean something to you in a more significant way beyond preference? Because I think it's really easy to get caught up on imagining what the college experience could look like and making this wish list of things that don't necessarily mean a lot to what your overall experience would be like beyond just maybe personal preference. While I think having those limitations — or having those parameters, rather — that you would like to stay within. I challenge you to really think about why you are creating those parameters and if they really are as important as maybe you are making them out to be.

  [00:02:59] BT: Yeah, and I want to talk a little bit more about that by plane or by train parameter. Because that's going to come with some additional costs — airfare, maybe a train ticket — that students are going to need to factor in versus someone who may be just coming from an hour or two within driving distance of the school. So what should students and their families consider there?

  [00:03:17] CL: For sure. I would say, definitely, you want to think about what that distance might mean in terms of potential costs. It could also be a matter of, does this perhaps even limit the number of times I might be able to go home? I know, when I was a student, I lived a six-hour driving distance from my campus. The first time I went home for the fall semester was Thanksgiving. But that was okay for me because my goal was to be in the location, to spend my time on campus and really have that experience. The ease of getting home or the desire to come home frequently wasn't necessarily one that was there for me, but it varies by student.

  Perhaps you have certain reasons for coming home — maybe if there are some family obligations, or even, perhaps even with health. If you need to see certain specialists that are close to home, you might need to be closer, or it's desirable to be closer to home for those particular reasons. All of those things, I wouldn't put any value to them, good, bad or indifferent. I think it's just a matter of being mindful of what that means.

  What that could also mean in terms of costs. I wouldn't get too caught up on it from the cost standpoint, necessarily, in the early stages of the process where you're really just looking and exploring different places. Just being mindful at some point that coming home might mean a plane ticket, or a train ticket, or a bus ride. Or just knowing what the resources and what options there might be at the particular institutions for students who are coming from a distance. For example, do they have some storage for you? Like, if you are coming from California to somewhere on the East Coast, does the school allow you to store your items there over the summer, for example, so that you don't have to transport those back and forth.

  One thing I could also recommend is getting to know students from your region, because that can certainly help with carpooling. My roommate and I were both from the same state. So while we both went to move-in day, we both came separately because we didn't know each other at that point. By the time we were leaving, we were leaving with one vehicle and a U-Haul that we shared. Those can definitely help to cut down on some of those costs if you team up and do some travel, perhaps with other folks who might be traveling a similar route as yours.

  [00:05:42] BW: Yeah, that's a great way to do that. That's proximity to home, but what about the surrounding community, the area around the school? It seems you can maybe break it down into three categories: There's urban environments, suburban environments, and then more rural areas. What do you tell students weighing those options?

  [00:06:02] CL: I would say again, thinking back to why does it matter, right? Is it really just, “This is someplace where I've always wanted to live for a few years?” Or is it something that really is going to have an impact on what the college experience is like for you. There's certainly pros and cons to any environment. That's really up for you to decide what those pros and what those cons are, because that will vary by individual and things that matter to them or are important to them.

  I would say, thinking about it in terms of when you're at the school, you're really at the school. That is really the community. That is the environment where you'll be most of the time. So the surrounding community, certainly, will be a secondary part of home for you, but your main home is really on the campus and a proximity a few miles radius around campus. I wouldn't necessarily get too caught up on it, but certainly, you do want to think about that.

  If you're able to come visit the campus, and just drive through the neighborhoods, and see what's near you, just so that you can be aware of what the area is like. I think it's really up to you to weigh what those options are between the differences and what that will mean for your experience. Know also that an urban experience in New York might be different from an urban experience in Philadelphia, may be different from Miami. So even just categorizing them a school from urban, suburban and rural will still mean something different in terms of what that translates to in particular places.

  [00:07:41] BT: I wonder, too, about schools that are more commuter friendly, versus schools that really prize having students be on campus. That can be another classification too, right? Speaking of on campus housing, I know Bucknell guarantees housing for all for years, but there are other schools that don't. So, yeah, what should students keep in mind there as well?

  [00:07:59] CL: Sure, I think that's also a really important factor to think about, in terms of what the living situation will be like for you, because you might want to be a commuter, or at least have that option if maybe one semester or a year you'd want to commute, and then others you may want to live on campus. Just having that ability could be something that you want to think about and find out about the schools you're interested in.

  It can also make a difference, especially, if you are coming from a different area a few hours away from the institution. If it's a school where there are a large percentage of commuters, and I'm coming from out of state, what does that mean for the students who are staying or who are able to leave quite as easily? Is the campus pretty much empty on the weekends, and it's just the folks who live from farther away who are left around? Or is it, even if there is a large commuter population, is it still a place that is pretty active throughout the week regardless of commuter or residential status.

  Another thing to think about also is what that means in terms of where you will physically be living. As you mentioned, at Bucknell, we do guarantee housing for all four years. At some schools, they may only guarantee it for one or two. Or they may require it actually for one, or two, or however many years that they choose to do so. What does that mean for you in terms of accessibility or the ability to find housing off campus? In those situations, if you are expected to live off campus, then perhaps what the surrounding area is of the campus might mean a little bit more to you, because you'll actually be living, perhaps, a few miles away from campus.

  So you'll want to do a little bit more due diligence to know what are those prices like or just what is the housing situation? What are the options? Is it within walking distance? Will I need a vehicle? Those sorts of things. So understanding what the expectations or options are for you both living on campus and if living off campus. What does that mean? How would that look for my experience as a student?

  [00:10:06] BW: So, Candace, one thing I'm hearing that's very helpful, I think, is the reminder to know yourself and ask yourself, “Why is this important to me? Why am I even looking at this element when building a list?” So it seems like another way to look at that is, what kind of environment are you going to most succeed in, academically, socially, etc? So, let's take New York, since it's three hours from Bucknell. If you went to school in New York, you could go to live shows, and restaurants, and shops pretty much 24/7. But that also could be a big distraction. I'd love to hear your take on that and how it's important to know yourself in that sense as well.

  [00:10:45] CL: Bryan, I'm so glad you brought that up because I think knowing yourself is so key to this process. And knowing yourself in different ways of what you really need to be successful, to be happy, to feel fulfilled. It can really help you guide your process, as you're looking for colleges and trying to explore places that would be a good fit for you, based on those things about you. I would say, knowing your true self and maybe not your aspirant self, so that you are putting yourself in the best situation for success.

  If you are someone who might easily be distracted, or perhaps you've come from a really small town, and so living in a place like New York is exciting but almost too exciting to the point where you're unable to focus, or maybe you have too many food options, and you’re having decision fatigue — of having to choose all these different things that you have access to in a way that maybe you never did before. Perhaps for some students, that's a place where they could thrive, and that would be a really great experience for them. But for other students, it might be a little bit too much, and you're not able to necessarily balance that totally different environment with your ability to be a student, and to be able to balance that well.

  Think about who you are. Maybe a smaller town where maybe there aren't quite as many options would be a good fit for you. Or maybe just not necessarily “options,” because it makes it sound using those sorts of words makes it seem better or worse in terms of not having options or having options. But is the environment one that allows you to focus on what you need to be able to focus on? Maybe a rural or even a suburban campus might give you a little bit more ease of being able to do so. Again, it's about knowing yourself and how you're able to focus.

  Even just level of independence. Some schools that are in more urban areas, for example, might have limited on campus dining options, or not have any at all. I've actually known of some that you really are eating in the city right near you. Or access to transportation, what that looks like. If public transportation is something that you would want to have readily available to you, or might you have your own vehicle, or even just the location of the school itself.

  Is it a part of a town? Or part of a city? So there might be a lot of other pedestrians and other folks who are unaffiliated with the school who might actually be on campus pretty frequently. Or would you prefer a place that really is more of its own isolated community in its own little bubble, if you will. Those are just some of the things that might also come into play in terms of your comfort level, or just your ability to really thrive in the academic space.

  [00:13:39] BT: Yeah, those are really great considerations. Especially since, at the end of the day, students are choosing a school and not necessarily a vacation spot, right? How do you recommend that students get more of a sense of whether they like the school, and the location, and those options and opportunities that you were talking about?

  [00:13:57] BT: Sure, I think there are a couple of different ways to approach this. I think, certainly, there are lots of resources online that you can really look through school websites, and different offerings, virtual tours, those sorts of things to get a general sense. But I can pretty much guarantee you that, if you're doing the virtual tour on online, or going through something that's on their website, they're not going to photograph the cloudy, rainy days, right? It'll be amazing how the grass is green and the skies are blue at every single college that you look at online. That might not necessarily be the norm physically on campus. But getting that early Intel is a great way to be cost efficient, especially if you're not able to necessarily foot that cost, or really just have the time to be able to travel at a distance.

  One thing you could consider is maybe doing some proxy visits, have proxy institutions. If you're wanting to just see what is a large, urban school environment like, go take a visit to the one that's nearby you. Maybe your state institution or one that's within a closed drive just to get a sense of like, okay, this is what large campus looks like. This is what a suburban campus looks like. Of course, it will be different. A large school in in one place is still going to be different than another place, but at least it gives you some indication or some insight into what just a large campus, or a smaller campus, rural campus, etc., might look like.

  I would definitely say that before you sign the dotted line and make the final choice on your matriculation, where you're actually going to enroll, it's definitely important to try to make a visit to that place before so. Now that some of the restrictions are released and relaxed a little bit more, and colleges are slowly returning to in person, a lot of schools have those in-person options now. Even if you're on vacation and you're in a location, and you want to just drive around and say like, “Oh, yeah, I was thinking about that school. Since we’re here, why don't we just take even an informal tour?” Or just drive around the area a little bit just to check out a place if you're not able to do a facilitated or official visit. I would definitely say that before you make the final decision to go somewhere to enroll at an institution, it's definitely important to try to have that on-campus experience of a visit, so that you can really know firsthand what that particular place in that environment is like.

  [00:16:37] BW: Yeah, I love the idea of the proxy visit. I'd never heard of that. I think that's really smart because a lot of people are going to have a school that's within a 15-minute, 30-minute, hour drive. So they can get a sense of what a college visit is like even if that particular school might not be on their list.

  You mentioned that before you sign the dotted line, you really should try to visit, and I completely agree there. But if you go for an open house or Admitted Student day or something like that, you’re really going to see the best that that campus and community have to offer. You might say that, again, you're seeing the blue-sky day when the skies might not always be blue there. How do you get a sense for what that community and campus is like year-round?

  [00:17:21] CL: That's a really good question. I mean, I would say with online and any anything that's photographed, it's always going to be photographed on the on the best day possible. The campus visit, unfortunately, we can order it and facilitate a lot of different things, but we can't control what the weather will be. It's possible that you may come on a rainy day. We've even had folks visit us here at Bucknell and as soon as the campus tour was about to be released, the sky opened up and it was torrential downpour. And they come back from the tour and be like, “You know, even on a rainy day, this was still an amazing experience.” So I think doing the best you can and just visiting whenever you're able to.

  But also talking to other students. Maybe if there's a way to identify students who are from your area who might be able to give you some intel from their perspective of, “We're used to X, Y and Z in the South. Now we're in Maine — what has your experience been like?” Even 70 degrees — I learned this — 70 degrees in Pennsylvania is different from 70 degrees in Colorado, where the altitude is much higher and the sun seems really close, and it's a lot warmer than it feels in Pennsylvania.

  Really, being able to make that visit yourself at some point is really going to be, I think, important and it's going to be key. I want you to keep an open mind, though, right? I mean, certainly, the location matters and will have an impact on your experience. But think about this also as an exciting time to just try something new, to be in a new environment, to try to be prepared for what that will look like, and try to do your due diligence to understand like, “Okay, is this a place that snows? I'm going to need this footwear, this sort of coat,” just to make sure that you're not caught off guard.

  But to some extent, there's only but so much you can know before you actually experience it. I went to school in central New York. I knew it was going to snow, I knew it would be cold, I had the equipment that I needed, but I didn't know that it was going to snow probably every day from October to March. That's something you experience once you're there. It's the excitement of being in a new place and exploring it. Again, we want to know enough so that you're not caught off guard and unprepared for what you need. I think it's also a little fun just to explore and experience it for yourself.

  [00:19:50] BT: It seems like that process of getting a clearer and bigger image of that snapshot applies to resources and opportunities as well. Of course, every school that you look at is going to want to put their best foot forward and show you all the things that they have to offer. But when it comes to those on-campus experiences — research, hands-on learning, internships and even job prospects — does going to a small-town university make a difference versus a big, urban one?

  [00:20:15] CL: I would say yes and no, right? I mean, there will be a difference perhaps in the number of X industry businesses that might be in that particular area. Every place has a local economy, right? Every place has schools, has health care facilities, has stores, has a variety of different things that are going to be consistent no matter where you are. So part of what the institutions do for preparing for their students experiential opportunities is making connections with the local economy, with the businesses in the area, developing those partnerships so that they can create opportunities for students to do internships, and research, etc.

  Also, knowing that where you are physically on your campus, or even in the area, does not necessarily limit what those opportunities could be. Certainly, we have or institutions have access to alumni across the country or even internationally. You're able to maybe make those connections for opportunities for internships in the summer or at other times. If you are in New York City, or some other place, and you're really interested in marine biology, there are no manatees, I don't think, swimming around in New York City anywhere. So maybe the summer is an opportunity for us to connect you with an opportunity working with those animals in Florida somewhere. Even though New York City, you think big city, all these opportunities, but maybe there aren't necessarily the opportunities that are specific to what you're interested in.

  I would say, know that your opportunities will be there regardless of where you are, and knowing that just because you're in a smaller town, or even if you're in a larger town, that doesn't necessarily equate to access to certain things at that particular time, if that makes sense. Certainly, taking advantage of what the summers could look like, using that as an opportunity to explore different experiences in different locations. Again, part of the job of colleges and universities is to make those connections and opportunities for students in their location as well.

  [00:22:34] BW: One consideration we haven't discussed is in-state versus out-of-state. I'd love to hear your advice there on what students should think about when looking at schools that are beyond the borders of their own home state?

  [00:22:48] BT: Sure, I think there are a couple of different things that could come into play here. If you are applying to an in-state public school, for example, there may be different admission rates for those who are residents of the state. If it happens to be your state, there might be a different admission rate there versus if you were applying to a state institution that is not your state. There might also be some differences in terms of access to some funding. Your federal grants, and any financial aid that's coming from the federal government, will really travel with you wherever. If you're, perhaps, being awarded local grant, or something from your delegate or your senator, that might require you to use those funds staying in-state in order to access those funds.

  Caveat there, colleges know that. A lot of colleges have students, many students, from out of state. At Bucknell, most of our students are from out of state. We are prepared financially to make those adjustments, and to supplement the funds that perhaps students would have had access to if they were local that they don't necessarily have access to going away from home for them. Those are some of the things to think about.

  I think, again, a lot, a lot, a lot of students do go out of state for college. I wouldn't necessarily get too stuck on that. I think, a lot of the differences will really just be about the type of institution — like I said, if it's in-state or out-of-state — and if it's public or private in terms of admission rate and potential funding opportunities. There's nothing else I can really think of that would be a big factor of a difference of being in or out of state.

  [00:24:53] BT: Finally, we often refer to college as a student's home away from home, or a four-year home. That's a really big commitment, but it's not a permanent one. The road is wide open for students to continue their journeys any number of places after college. How can students and families keep that perspective in mind when balancing all of those options?

  [00:24:53] CL: I think that's a really important point, Brooke. I think you mentioned earlier that going away to college, you're not on vacation, right? You're not a tourist in this place. It's a different type of experience. There might be some attraction to a place just from how you've experienced it on vacation, or from some other standpoint. That could be a totally different experience than actually being a resident there and living in a place.

  Also, knowing that the campus and the campus environment really is more of what your home will be. Just think about that more so in terms of, I guess, priorities and what you're really valuing with that. Also, normally, where you go to college is not necessarily where you will stay. It could be a moment in time. It could be this four years where I'm at this place, and then once I graduate, then I'm able to move, and go to other places, and explore other opportunities. Definitely think about it as the place where I am for this particular moment in time to accomplish this goal, to get what I need out of this college time, and the resources and the community that I'm able to develop there. Know that it's not necessarily a permanent one. You certainly have graduate school, or whatever other opportunities you may want to take advantage of, to live in particular places. The college one is really just more of a temporary home.

  [00:26:22] BW: That's such great advice. We'll leave it there for this episode of College Admissions Insider. Candace, thank you so much for this great insight about the importance of location.

  [00:26:32] CL: Thank you for having me.

  [00:26:34] BT: Thanks to you for listening. If you're a fan of the podcast, please take a moment to share, rate and subscribe.

  [00:26:39] BW: We'll be back with another new episode in two weeks. In the meantime, you can send your questions, comments and even ideas for episodes to podcast@bucknell.edu.

  [00:26:50] BT: You can also follow Bucknell on all the socials @BucknellU on Instagram, Facebook, Twitter, and YouTube. You can also follow our student-run Instagram account, which is @Iamraybucknell.

  [00:27:00] BW: Until next time, keep on reaching for your dreams and your dream school.