Episode 66: Choosing (and Transferring From) Community College

Episode 65

• Episode 66 Transcript

  [EPISODE]

  [0:00:08] BHA: There's no singular path when it comes to continuing your education. For many, heading to a four-year residential university is a natural leap. For others, pursuing trade school or another professional training might be the next logical move.

  [0:00:20] BT: Then there's the option of community college, which gives students the opportunity to ease into college life, explore a variety of academic disciplines and earn a degree—all in preparation for the next big step. I'm Brooke Thames from Bucknell University, and this episode of College Admissions Insider is all about the role community college can play in a student's educational journey.

  [0:00:39] BHA: I'm Becca Haupt Aldredge, also from Bucknell. We'll chat about how community college differs from four-year universities, why a student might consider attending this type of school, tips for transferring into a bachelor's degree program, and more.

  [0:00:53] BT: Here to lend their expertise are two staff members from Bucknell's own Office of Admissions, Caro Mercado, and Aries Contreras. As associate dean of admissions and director of partnerships, Caro's work focuses on the transfer process, which includes fostering relationships between Bucknell and community colleges throughout the Northeast. Aries graduated from Bucknell in 2022 after transferring from a community college herself, and now serves as an admissions counselor for areas in New Jersey and New York City. Welcome to the podcast.

  [0:01:21] CM: Thank you.

  [0:01:22] AC: Thank you, guys.

  [0:01:23] BT: Caro, you've actually been on the podcast before in an episode that covered the transferring process in general. We're so excited to have you back for a discussion that focuses on the community college experience in particular. Before we dive in, can we get a refresher on your work at Bucknell?

  [0:01:38] CM: Sure. Tyou for inviting me back. It's exciting to be here. Again, I serve as an associate dean of admissions and director of partnerships. In essence, in my role of associate dean, I oversee our transfer admissions process. I also work as the director of partnerships and oversee two distinctive scholarship programs. One is our Community College Scholars Program, which allows me to work with distinctive community colleges here in Pennsylvania and in Maryland. I also get to work with our admissions team, working with community-based organizations and specialty schools in their recruitment process.

  [0:02:26] BHA: Aries, what about your position? Can you tell us a bit more about your role as an Admissions Counselor at Bucknell?

  [0:02:31] AC: Sure. What I do is I meet with prospective students and their families to speak a little bit more about Bucknell as an option for them after they graduate high school. Through that process, I also read their applications, specifically applications from central New Jersey and New York City. Part of that is traveling to those areas to be able to go to college fairs and speak with the students in person as well.

  [0:02:54] BT: Awesome. Thanks for telling us a little bit more. We definitely want to talk about the road from community college to a university in this episode. First, let's outline community college as an alternative option to a four-year school. What are the differences between the two?

  [0:03:11] CM: One of the things that I think is really important to note is that community college is an alternative for higher education. Chiefly, community colleges are two-year schools in which students elect to enroll and work towards achieving an associate's degree. Unlike our four-year institutions that are chiefly four-year degree options, either Bachelor of Arts degree, or Bachelor of Science degree.

  In essence, students who elect to go to a community college are doing so for a variety of reasons, which we'll get into a little bit more. Even though they may elect not to initially start at a four-year institution, they can pursue careers that require a four-year degree, and then they can use their associate's degree to transfer into a four-year institution.

  [0:04:00] BHA: I'm sure there are countless reasons why a student might choose to attend a community college before, or instead of, a four-year university. Aries, you earned an associate's degree prior to coming to Bucknell, can you walk us through some of the reasons you chose to pursue community college first?

  [0:04:15] AC: Well, my decision to come to community college initially wasn't even my own, actually. My mom's the one who signed me up for community college, but it was because I had such a difficult time in my last two years in high school. I think academically and socially, I felt very stunted, and it wasn't a comfortable environment for me to be in. My senior year was actually virtual; I did at all in cyber school. This was before the pandemic, so this was not common for people to be in cyber school for high school. My guidance counselor didn't do a good job of telling me what my options were because of where I was in life, just not feeling comfortable in the environment.

  My mom wanted me to have the opportunity to go to school without really a financial consequence. If I didn't like it, I wouldn't be in debt because I would receive a Pennsylvania Higher Education Assistance Agency grant through that process of going to community college. I'm also the youngest of six siblings, and no one else has gone to college except for me. I think my mom really thought that there was something different about me that she thought would be right in academia. I figured it would be worth the risk of going.

  [0:05:27] BT: Yeah, thanks for sharing that experience, Aries. It sounds like the option to go to community college, maybe afforded you some more time to explore and figure some things out that maybe you might not have had in high school. Caro, as someone who works closely with transfer students, are there any other ways that a community college can be a better fit for a student right out of high school?

  [0:05:47] CM: Well, I think Aries describes the situation that we see a lot of students who elect to go to community college. They may not have had a great high school experience. While they may have thought, “Oh, maybe I'll go to college someday,” I think the route to community college allows them to really try it out and try to see if they can manage the academic coursework that perhaps, in high school, they didn't feel as strong, or felt as capable of managing in college environments.

  I think for a lot of students, community colleges provide multiple options and opportunities straight out of high school. I think, oftentimes, we see students who are undecided in an area of study. They may not necessarily know what they want to study. They know that they want to go to school, but not necessarily what. I think community college allows them to, as I like to say, explore the buffet of majors. They can ease into a higher educational environment and try different classes to see which ones they're really interested in and, potentially, which ones they do very well in. As Aries described, she chose a school that was closest to home; she could commute there. I think for a lot of students, this too is a way to manage their independence from home. They elect to go to school and try that out. I think, also, what community colleges also afford is that they can choose to go either full-time or part-time. If they are working — and this is true for many adult learners who elect to go to a community college — they are working full-time. Perhaps, they're also taking care of their families, and so they're taking one or two classes at a time working towards a degree, compared to maybe other students who elect to go full-time and know where they want to focus their studies.

  I think the cost of attendance — and Aries mentioned this as well — is much less. Community colleges offer a real affordable way to earn a degree without necessarily fearing the notion of going into debt. For a lot of students, a four-year institution might loom as an impossibility. They're also able, again, to get funding through the state, because many community colleges are managed through their states. They're able to receive different types of funding.

  I think, lastly, what I'll say is community colleges are really a means of access to higher education for a lot of vulnerable students. I think it can be a better initial investment to preserve on costs and prepare students who may not necessarily be academically or personally ready to enter a four-year educational environment.

  [0:08:36] BHA: Caro, you did such a beautiful job giving us an umbrella of the flexibility and the preparedness, both academically and socially. You really outline community colleges as a terrific option for lots of students, especially those vulnerable populations that you mentioned. Knowing that community college can be a time to test the waters and try things out, at what point might a student start thinking about whether they'd like to continue on to a four-year degree?

  [0:09:04] CM: Well, I think that, just like any student who's contemplating going for a college degree, there's a lot that goes into thinking about whether or not they want to take that leap of faith and test out those waters on a bigger pond, if you will. I think what I would recommend is that students do their homework before applying anywhere.

  Similar to high school students who may wish to explore their options of schools, community college students also need to assess what type of institution they may wish to attend. Public or private? Close to home or far away? Majors that will be accepted in terms of their transfer credits. The cost of attendance. Does the school offer scholarships or benefits for a transfer student coming out of a community college? Is there institutional aid to support their cost of attendance?

  Also, another is time to degree. For many students who go on to achieve an associate's degree, they're thinking, strategically, “I finished two years at a community college and then I have another two years potentially at a four-year institution.” That may not necessarily always be the case, especially if their credits earned at the community college are not transferable to their new institutions. There's no guarantee that those credits will transfer and meet the requirements of that institution.

  I would always say that you want to check into those things before you begin applying and seeing what is the best fit for you. I would say that a four-year degree matters. It's something that's going to lead to, perhaps, greater job viability, or it's leading to a higher level of training and skill development needed for a future career. An associate's degree, for many folks, is suitable for their current employment situation, but if they want to advance or perhaps a different job opportunity requires a four-year degree, then that's another option that they can pursue.

  [0:11:15] AC: I know in my experience, choosing to go to a four-year university was not one that I made right off the bat. I think, going into community college, I was so unsure of what I wanted. Again, I was just trying to get out for the experience to see what I could gain from it. It wasn't until the second semester of my first year — or actually, after my first semester — I received my transcript so that I can see what my grades looked like. I didn't keep track of my grades throughout the semester, so seeing that I was performing well was a surprise to me.

  
  I also didn't realize how much I enjoyed learning again, because I think I was finally in an environment where I was comfortable and felt supported. I thrived way more in the community college setting than I did in high school, and it was a shock to me. I received those grades, and I realized that my professors were also noticing the way I was performing. A psychology professor recommended that I look into the Bucknell Community College Scholars program, which I think we'll get into later. But it wasn't until other people started noticing my performance and that I then started to think, maybe I can continue my education beyond just this two-year program.

  [0:12:31] BT: Yeah, I love that, Aries, that process of self-discovery, and discovering what you wanted, and that community college was able to afford you the time and the journey there. I wanted to dig in quickly to some of those distinctions that Caro made a little bit earlier when talking about public versus private institutions — maybe what credits will transfer and which ones won't. First, can we talk about the difference between public and private institutions when it comes to transferring from community college? What difference does that make?

  [0:12:58] CM: Well, I think in my experience, oftentimes public institutions usually have a bigger bandwidth to accept more transfer students. Oftentimes, there might be transfer articulation agreements between community colleges and a particular institution, meaning that those students who are coming out of that particular community college can then easily transfer into a public institution. Many public institutions rely on community colleges as a feeder into their institutions. Usually, when I say they have a broader bandwidth, it's that they offer more seat availability.

  Oftentimes, I think for public institutions, sometimes, they're certainly less expensive than private institutions. For a community college student who's evaluating that cost of attendance, that's something that they're going to look at. “If I transfer out of a community college and go to a public institution, the cost of attendance is going to be less for me.” There may be greater financial aid. There might be scholarships that are made available to them through that articulation agreement.

  With respect to private institutions, private institutions tend to be more selective. As such, they typically do not invite a whole lot of transfer students into their institution. There are a lot of factors that go into that. It just may be availability of seats in particular programs. It may be that there are only so many students that they can accommodate coming in through a transfer portal or pathway, so they limit the number of students that they may accept. Because of the heightened selectivity, it also then makes it a much more competitive process for transfer students to come into any given private institution.

  Community colleges oftentimes, by virtue of their curriculum, sometimes, those curricula do not transfer easily into more selective institutions. I can say that is true. Here at Bucknell, we often see many students from community colleges seeking to come in. But because their curriculum is not designed necessarily to match what is offered at an institution similar to Bucknell, many of them find that it's a harder transfer process for them.

  [0:15:33] BHA: As a student at a community college is thinking through the idea of transferring, who is best situated to support that student on their journey? Obviously, on the four-year institution side, there might be an admissions counselor that oversees transfer admissions. What about on the community college side? What does that support look like?

  [0:15:50] CM: Sure. Well, I will tell you that most of the community colleges that I've had the pleasure of working with have a dedicated staff member, or a team of staff members, to work with students to help them figure out their next steps. Many of them will have academic advisors. They will have transfer articulation coordinators that can aid students who are seeking their next foray into higher education.

  I've often been invited to community colleges to participate in transfer fairs. They invite schools into the community college to, again, provide them a perspective of what they have to offer — an opportunity for the students to converse with them to learn more about what program offerings they have and what the application process might look like. They can also investigate further, are there scholarship opportunities? What type of aid can apply? Aries mentioned before that she received the PHEAA grant, and that is a Pennsylvania-specific grant for students who might be low income. That PHEAA grant can be applied to another institution. Again, students can discover what they need to make a best decision about that next transfer step.

  [0:17:12] BT: Yeah. It sounds like, there are a wealth of resources and people out there to support students as they figure out what's next for them in that community college journey. One of the resources that may be available at various institutions are what we call pathway programs that provide paths to higher education for students of various backgrounds. At Bucknell, we have a particular pathway program for community college students called our community College Scholarship Program. Caro, can you give us a quick overview of that program and how it works?

  [0:17:40] CM: Yeah, absolutely. Our Community College Scholarship Program is a unique program here at Bucknell University that was established many years ago. In its current iteration, we partner with six distinctive community colleges, five of which are here in Pennsylvania, one in Maryland. This basic program provides students the opportunity to take an adventure at Bucknell through a six-week program. They come to campus, they live in residence, they take two classes and they participate in a whole host of different activities to acclimate them to Bucknell. In the process, they get to learn about what Bucknell has to offer to them.

  Upon their successful completion in the program, they return to their community college, earn their associate's degree. In that time frame, they are eligible to apply for transfer to Bucknell. If they are successful in that transfer process, they enter Bucknell the following fall under a tuition scholarship program.

  [0:18:42] BT: Aries, you participated in that Community College Scholarship program in your journey to Bucknell. Can you tell us a little bit about how you heard of the program, what made you want to participate and the experience you had?

  [0:18:53] AC: Sure. As I mentioned earlier, I had a psychology professor who actually threw my name out into a pot, basically, to my transfer coordinator at my community college. Then that coordinator reached out to me, telling me that I should apply.

  It was a leap of faith to apply for the program. When I was accepted, I had no idea what to expect over the summer. I had never been away from home for long periods of time. Especially growing up in a Hispanic household, your family unit is the foundation of your life, really. To be away for six weeks was a super daunting idea.

  To say that the six weeks was transformative is an understatement. I like to think of my life as before the program and after the summer program, because the personal growth journey that I experienced during those six weeks is unlike any other that I've had. I learned so much about myself in terms of what I'm capable of, in terms of academic achievement, but also, socially, making friends and having this new found sense of empowerment that I've never received in any educational experience.

  I took two classes, one in psychology and one in education. The classes are full semester classes, but shrunk into six weeks. It is the most rigorous training you can think of. I struggled a lot as did everyone else in my cohort, but the relief you get once the program is over and the memories you make with the students who are surrounded by you is a really great one. I know that's cliché to say, but it really was.

  [0:21:20] BHA: Aries, as you described your experience and the level of transformation, I'm just curious, what does it feel like now to be an admissions counselor and to get to support prospective students, not only when you meet with them in our office, and on the road, and reading their applications but also get to do things like this podcast?

  [0:21:35] AC: It's interesting because I would never have pictured myself here. I think that's how a lot of high school students feel, or people coming into Bucknell, whether they are transfer students or fresh out of high school. To me, it feels like I'm giving back to a program that had supported me in so many different ways. I've also partaken in the planning side of the summer program now. Being able to speak to students and seeing that transformation happen in them, too, is probably one of the more rewarding aspects of it.

  Now being an admissions counselor, I like to sit down and talk to students — not so much about Bucknell in particular in terms of where they want to go after high school, but just talk about college because I never got to have those kinds of conversations. I want to know more about what are their passions, what are they interested in, what are they truly wanting to get out of their college experience? Because Bucknell is one of many options that these students have. My job, I feel, is to just have that conversation with them so that they can maybe narrow down what it is that they really want within the next four years of their life, or two years if they're not planning on four-year institution.

  [0:22:45] BHA: Caro, what advice would you give to students, like Aries, that are a prospective transfer student or a prospective community college student getting ready to jump into life and academics at a larger university?

  [0:23:05] CM: Sure. Thanks, Becca. Well, I think there's a lot of things to consider. As I mentioned before, I think before anyone considers making that transfer, it's important to understand what it is that you want to experience. Certainly, one of the things I often comment to our community college scholars who were here in the summer is, “This is an opportunity for you to focus on being a scholar and not necessarily worrying about other things.” I think that it's important for any community college student in particular to really consider what is it that you want to gain from the experience.

  Any institution is going to be able to afford you a four-year degree. I think outside of attaining that degree, you need to also ascertain and discern what is it that you want to gain from those next two years? Oftentimes, for our community college students, they're managing multiple things at once. They are going to school, they're working. If they're an adult learner, perhaps, they're taking care of family — not only their own family but maybe having to help out with elders. There's a lot that – they commute. There's a lot that they have to juggle in that community college experience. When, typically, you transfer it to a four-year institution, most of those institutions are residential. The prospect of living on campus, having a roommate, adjusting to a campus life that has been vastly different than maybe what your community college experience was.

  
  How do you transition well to that? How do you anticipate what your needs are, and the resources and supports that you would find at that institution to aid you not only in that initial transfer and transition, but also ongoing? How do you tap into them?

  I think one of the benefits that students coming straight out of high school into a college environment benefit from is that you have a wealth of resources and supports that come out to aid you in that initial transfer. You ease into it and you get to learn the institutional landscape. Oftentimes, for transfer students — and I will say, particularly for community college students — it mirrors very much that first year experience, where they're abruptly coming into an environment that they're unfamiliar with.

  Again, taking the time and opportunity to research, to do your homework, to find out what that school has to offer to you is really critical, I think, for a successful adjustment process. I think, also, it's really critical for students to utilize their most immediate resources. Their academic advisors, their faculty, other folks who are there willing to assist them. As I know in my own position in terms of managing the transfer process, I try to be a visible presence for our incoming transfer students so that they know me, they know someone, a name that they can contact to help them through the process. That's what it's about — their success not only coming, in, but getting through to that finish line, which is graduation.

  [0:26:25] BT: Aries, as someone who navigated this transition, how did you go about answering some of those questions that Caro was talking about? How do you tap into resources? How do you build this network of support? What did that look like for you?

  [0:26:37] AC: Well, I think my case is special, because I came in during the fall of 2020, which was the pandemic year. Even so, with everything being virtual, there are a lot of resources for me to take advantage of while I was here. It really helped to know that I wasn't alone in that transition.

  Part of being in the Bucknell Community College Scholars Program is that I was with a cohort of 20 other students. I think, total, we transferred in 13 students from my cohort. They were all experiencing the same thing. To be able to relate to those students who come from lower income backgrounds who are ethnically diverse…it was a difficult transition for all of us, but the fact that we got to relate to each other on that, it felt like we were being heard and that we were seen by each other. I don't think if I didn't have that support that I would have been as successful as I was at Bucknell.

  I also think, utilizing the counseling center for students on campus was a big step in my journey. Having someone to talk to from an objective perspective was also someone who could listen to me and hear about my experience and she could also tell me that I'm not the only one who's experiencing some of the hardships of the social transition.

  But I think overall, choosing to want to interact with campus and the resources and the events that were occurring, especially the fun ones that me and my friends were interested in. I know during midterms and finals week, they'll bring food trucks to campus for students to enjoy. Being able to be a part of those events also helped ease my transition, having that social group with me.

  [0:28:57] BHA: Aries, thanks for sharing with us how you found the support systems and the people that made Bucknell a place where you could see yourself. As we wrap up, let's chat about how current community college students can figure out what the right next step is for them. What advice would you give a student who's not sure what comes next after community college? How can they gain exposure to different pathways and figure out whether or not continuing their education is what they want to do?

  [0:29:25] CM: What we're really talking about is a major life transition, right? I think, understanding that, as we think about moving from a community college into a larger four-year institution, what comes with that is definitely, I think, excitement, anticipation, as well as anxiety, the unknown, right?

  When we think about a student making the choice to jump into that four-year experience, I think one of the things that they need to be prepared that on the one side, they're going to be working with dynamic expert faculty; they're going to be interacting with students who come from a lot of different backgrounds and life experiences; and they're able to maximize the variety of resources and exciting co-curricular experiences that exist typically at a four-year institution.

  I think on the flip side, one of the realities is they're going to encounter a much more rigorous coursework and academic experience. They're going to be taught at more rigorous levels and pace. Their performance is going to be evaluated at a higher level. Their attendance is going to be noted. Again, there are higher expectations.

  As a transfer student, it will take them about one full semester to get grounded, and that might seem like a long time for someone who's already been at school for two years. You're coming in and you're like that new kid on the block. You don't know where to go, who to talk to, or where to find your groove, so to speak.

  That notion of finding community, finding a sense of belonging is critical for transfer students and, in particular, I think, community college students. I think there are a lot of venues that are going to be tested and that resiliency and feeling like you do belong is going to be critical for a student to feel successful.

  [0:32:42] BT: Aries, what about you? How would you advise a student who is right now where you have been in the past about considering their options and navigating the whole process?

  [0:32:52] AC: I would say that the entire process of thinking, “What is there after community college. What does that look like for me?”, it's supposed to be scary, because it's ambiguous. We as humans do not like ambiguity. We fear it and we try to avoid it at all costs. That's why there's a lot of planning in the future. Unfortunately, it's not until you take those risks of not knowing what the outcome is going to be that you're going to get the greatest rewards.

  Having people tell you that they see potential in you — whether that's your professors, your counselors, your coordinators — that's a really overwhelming feeling. Everyone tells you you have this potential, but you don't know what to do with it, and you don't know how to channel it. I think there comes a realization that the people you're surrounded by are willing to take a chance on you, but you have to be willing to take the chance on yourself. Making that decision is probably one of the hardest ones that I had to make.

  If I could say anything, it's that it’s a frightening process, and it's supposed to be. Buckle in and get ready for the ride, because what comes after, however you define success for yourself, is to come as long as you stay authentic to what you see your goal to be.

  [0:34:08] BT: I think that the high schoolers and community college students who are listening definitely have a wealth of information and knowledge to take with them from this episode. Thanks again to Caro and Aries for being here, sharing your experiences and expertise.

  [0:34:20] CM: Thank you for the opportunity.

  [0:34:23] AC: Thank you so much for having us.

  [0:34:25] BHA: We also want to thank everyone out there listening. If you're a fan of the podcast, please take a moment to rate, subscribe, and share this episode with the students in your life.

  [0:34:34] BT: College Admissions Insider will be back with another episode in a few weeks. In the meantime, send your questions, comments, and episode ideas to podcast@bucknell.edu.

  [0:34:43] BHA: Finally, you're invited to follow Bucknell on your favorite social media apps. Just look for @BucknellU on Instagram, Facebook, Twitter, YouTube, and TikTok. You can also follow our student-run Instagram account, which is @IamRayBucknell.

  [0:34:59] BT: Until next time, keep on reaching for your dreams and your dream school.

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