Episode 83: Attending a 4-year College Abroad

Episode 83

• Episode 83 Transcript

  [EPISODE]

  [0:00:06] BHA: No two college journeys are the same. For some, it might mean attending college right in their hometown, while others might travel halfway or even to the other side of the country for school.

  [0:00:16] BT: Then, there are those who take their education beyond borders. I'm Brooke Thames from Bucknell University. At the request of one of our listeners, in this episode of College Admissions Insider, we are exploring options for attending college outside of the US. Thanks for suggesting this topic, Elizabeth.

  [0:00:34] BHA: And I'm Becca Haupt Aldredge, also from Bucknell. Today, we'll learn where students can begin researching schools, how admissions can differ from country to country, what the day-to-day learning experience might look like, and more.

  [0:00:46] BT: Our guest is a new friend of the podcast, well versed in international admissions, Chris Pluta is Director of College Counseling at the United Nations International School in New York. Welcome to the podcast.

  [0:00:58] CP: Thanks. Thanks so much. It's great to be here. I'm a big fan of Bucknell, and I'm really honored to be a guest on your podcast.

  [0:01:07] BT: Yes. We're so excited to have you. So, to give our listeners some more background, can you tell us a bit about your career in college counseling and your work at the United Nations International School?

  [0:01:19] CP: Sure. I began in admissions as an admissions officer at the University of Pennsylvania back in 1997. From there, moved to New York City and was part of the admissions office at Barnard College. I've worked in several independent schools in New York and DC. But I think the most relevant experience I've had to this podcast is being the Director of College Counseling at the Lycée Français de New York, which is a school that teaches the French curriculum, where I was director for 10 years. Now, for the past two years, I've been the Director of College Counseling at the United Nations International School, which is absolutely as cool as it sounds. We have about 1500 students from pre-K through 12, from 109 different countries.

  [0:02:12] BHA: So when it comes to pursuing college internationally, how many of the students that you work with go that route? What locations tend to get the most interest?

  [0:02:21] CP: Approximately half of our students will apply to universities outside of the US, and they are applying literally all over the world. So a lot of them will apply in the UK and Canada, but the Netherlands, Ireland, France, Spain, Italy, Sweden, Japan, all of these places will be found on our students' lists. About 70% of our students will eventually stay in the US, though they might apply to multiple countries, but we really encourage our students to look abroad.

  [0:02:55] BT: I can imagine that process might be a bit different for a student who maybe has lived abroad before or has other international experience in comparison to a student who was born and raised in the US. So how might a student from, say, central Pennsylvania start exploring higher ed options and opportunities abroad? Does it all start with throwing a dart on the map?

  [0:03:17] CP: I think a good start would be to congratulate yourself for looking outside of the borders of our country. There's a huge world out there, and there are so many ways to be educated. So I think it's a wonderful thing. I think looking at a map isn't such a bad start. When you think about looking at college in the US, a lot of people will start in states where they have a connection.

  My grandparents were from Pennsylvania, and so I looked in Pennsylvania for colleges. Your family might have some origins in Ireland or Italy, or you might have seen a movie in French that you thought was really cool. These are all reasons to start a college search in a certain country. Fortunately, there are degrees offered in English all over the world, but particularly in Europe. You can investigate the differences between these university systems, usually on a centralized website. So most countries will have a website where they list the different kinds of degrees they offer, the different majors or courses they have, and also how to apply.

  [0:04:29] BHA: The more you speak, Chris, the more I'm reminded that we invited the right guest to the podcast. You've already shared such a wealth of knowledge with our guests, I'd love to begin to break down some of these considerations that you mentioned, piece by piece, maybe starting with academics. So how can a student be sure that their high school preparation in the US matches what a school in the Netherlands, for example, might be looking for?

  [0:04:54] CP: It's a great question. I think it's important to note that most countries have a centralized educational system where everybody is pretty much taking the same courses, and there are the exact same exams offered by the government at the end of the high school process. So it's usually those exam results that end up being the basis for admission.

  Now, in our country, we have very different graduation requirements based on the region where you've grown up and based on the school system in which you attended. So international universities know this, and they will publish entry requirements for international students so that you don't necessarily have to bring the exact same education as someone from the Netherlands in your example.

  In these entry requirements, usually, standardized testing is a big part of it — not always, but a lot of the time. That could be SAT testing, ACT testing, AP testing, IB testing and sometimes they'll have their own entrance exams that they'll offer applicants. Grades in your courses may also be evaluated, so that high school transcript could be a really big part of this application process too.

  I should say that if you go online and look at different international universities online, you are going to see these entry requirements very well-articulated. So that you will be able to see whether or not you have what they want in order to study the subject that you're looking for. It's possible, after looking at the entry requirements, that you might not be sure if you qualify for admissions. In that case, it's totally okay to write to the admissions office and ask them if your credentials are what they're looking for for admission.

  [0:06:51] BT: So, let's say, a student has done all of their research, they've reached out if they needed to, and they're confident that they might meet the requirements. Then, of course, there's the whole admissions process. And I'm already hearing a heavy emphasis on standardized testing, which could be different than some schools in the US. A US school might require an essay, supplemental question responses and recommendation letters on top of grades and standardized tests. Or maybe not standardized tests at all of their test optional like Bucknell. So can you tell us a little bit more about how varied admissions can be from place to place?

  [0:07:27] CP: Yes. Well, the admissions process can work in a very different way from the one we have in the US. That said, of course, there are American Universities Abroad that will have an admission system very similar to ours. So, places like the American University of Paris or Bard College Berlin, or NYU Abu Dhabi — all places I visited recently and thought were terrific — they will have an admission system that's just like ours. But outside of these private institutions, usually, with some kind of American affiliation, the application process will be centralized. So there will be a central process much like the common app that is specific to each country.

  It's possible that they'll ask you for a personal statement that really goes into why you want to study that subject. They will usually ask for a reference letter from a teacher who teaches you in that subject, or someone who can write on your behalf about your qualifications for that subject. It's possible that there would be an interview process as well. Unlike the US interview process, which is really meant to get to know you as a person, this interview process is to get to know what you know about the subject and why you hope to study it in university.

  So the process really abroad, usually is much more tailored to evaluate whether or not you are ready or prepared to study the subject that you've indicated as your major. So they're usually not as interested in your extracurricular activities, and in general, they require less information than the US. So for instance, in the Canadian system, for the most part, most of these universities do not ask for any essays at all or recommendation letters. They don't require testing, and they'll just ask that you complete a form, and send your transcript, and that's it. It's beautiful.

  [0:09:36] BHA: Wow. That is such a strong contrast to things like holistic review and kind of the liberal arts experience that we're familiar with here in the US. To your point, what a great idea that students really explore all that is out there and available to them.

  It sounds like there are lots of nuances in the admissions requirements, and qualifications, and application process. I'm sure the same goes for cultural norms and values around education too. How might the day-to-day experience of a school abroad differ from a school in the US, and how can students best prepare themselves for that transition?

  [0:10:14] CP: This is a great question. I'll say, one of the mistakes that students make when they're considering studying abroad is that they make the assumption that a university abroad has kind of the same touchstones as a university in the US. You really can't count on things being the same. For instance, you really need to explore whether or not this university has a campus, whether or not it has residence halls, whether or not you have the ability to take classes or coursework outside of your major, or the flexibility to change your major without withdrawing and reapplying. It's not given that faculty are available to answer your questions outside of class. The degree program might be three years or four years.

  You want to look for and find out if they offer you special advisors for international students who can help you acclimate and understand the education that you're getting. You want to see if there's student life programming. And a good question to ask is, do local students go home on the weekends? Some students I know are really happy to be in a kind of an empty residence hall over the weekend, and others really don't want to live that life. So what you need to do is ask a lot of questions from people who are there already.

  Cultural norms are different, so you need to know what it's going to be like to be there. Also, ask some questions about class etiquette. I've heard stories of professors in Europe who don't let you go to the bathroom, or who take attendance every day, and that's part of your grade. So I think the only way to kind of get to the answers to these kinds of questions is to get connected to a student who's already there. So, one thing I would suggest is getting in touch with the admissions office to be introduced to an international student who can really help you understand.

  I think, even when the culture is relatively similar, you will suffer some culture shock probably. I remember hearing a story about a student from the US who decided to go to university in Canada and was just shocked when they turned on the television or listened to the radio. They were hearing about Canadian politics and Canadian culture. Even though it might seem obvious to us, maybe it isn't, because Canada is so close to us geographically. So, again, ask a lot of questions, and also keep in mind that, hey, if you do want an experience that's similar to one in the US, but you want to be abroad, why not try an American University Abroad? They're really good at what they do, and you'll have the similar support network that you're used to in the US.

  [0:13:11] BT: Yes, it sounds like there's only so much that you can imagine in your head that might or might not line up with reality. The best way to really understand what it might be like is to, like you said, talk to someone who is doing it every single day. One of those day-to-day experiences that I think of off the top of my head is language and language differences. While many countries have English as a second language, is it necessary for a student to have some proficiency in the official language of a country or culture?

  [0:13:43] CP: It's a great question, and the systems we're discussing offer Bachelor's degrees in English, so that's no problem. Usually, knowledge of the official language is not required for admissions purposes, but it's not a bad idea to at least learn a little bit of the language before you arrive. Just knowing the pleasantries of saying, "Good morning," and, "Thank You," and knowing your numbers, that's going to get you a long way.

  Now, some universities and university systems will require the students to learn, or at least be proficient in the official language of that country. As far as I'm concerned, that is a huge bonus for, and a good reason, to go abroad is to get another language under your belt, because it's going to make you even more Interesting and employable after you graduate.

  [0:14:41] BHA: I'm sure that the draw of learning about another culture and another language has to go hand in hand with the decision to study abroad. It's a huge piece of the puzzle, I'm sure. Another thing that is a given when you're studying in the US or elsewhere is that you'll have to decide how you're going to fund your education, whether that's tuition, cost of living or anything in between. Chris, can you talk us through some options for financing your university experience abroad?

  [0:15:13] CP: Yes. Unfortunately, I don't have great news on this front. Most public universities abroad will not offer aid to foreign students. There might be a few merit-based scholarships, however, they are really hard to qualify for. It's not a given in any way that you would qualify for aid at a public university, and most of the universities that we're talking about are public. So the Oxfords, and Cambridges, and Exeters of the world, the University of Amsterdam, all of those wonderful places are public.

  Private universities, however, often will consider students for both need-based financial aid and scholarships. So I think looking into the universities that interest you, it would be helpful to take note as to whether it is a public or private institution. If it's private, I would really dig deeper into their potential scholarships, because that might be a way in. Whenever I've talked to admissions folks at private universities, they've always stressed that if we have really, really excellent students, there will be some money for them.

  So I encourage you, if you are serious about studying abroad and you require or would like some financial aid, be sure to apply to public universities, but also look at the private universities.

  [0:16:47] BT: I and I'm sure our listeners really appreciate your transparency around especially that funding and scholarship aspect, because that can be one of the main, if not the deciding factor for a lot of students when it comes to their college education.

  [0:16:59] CP: Absolutely. It's something that – you absolutely owe it to yourself to take seriously.

  [0:17:05] BT: We've covered so much ground in this episode about all of the different options when it comes to exploring and choosing to study abroad. Studying outside of one's home country can enhance their development, not only personally, but professionally. So let's wrap up this episode with your thoughts on why a student should really consider pursuing education outside of the US, or outside of their home country in general.

  [0:17:33] CP: Absolutely. Exposing yourself to different cultures, different languages, different ways of thinking, different ways of learning, different people. These experiences are very valuable to being a complete human being, and will also, in a more practical sense, make you more valuable to your employers and also to graduate programs. Whether it's for a full degree abroad, or for a year abroad at a US institution, your experience abroad will absolutely change your life in all of the best ways.

  And I can tell you now, I have lots of friends who still keep in touch with the friends that they made going abroad. They're the first to tell me that this is one of the seminal experiences of their lives. So I hope that, while I know going abroad isn't for everybody, I hope that everyone will consider at least exploring this option before making a final choice.

  [0:18:37] BHA: Chris, thank you so much for bringing so much value to the podcast and to our listeners, thank you so much for taking the time.

  [0:18:44] CP: Oh, it's my pleasure. Thanks so much for having me.

  [0:18:48] BT: Thanks to everyone out there for listening. If you're a fan of the podcast, please take a moment to rate, subscribe, and share this episode with the students and families in your life.

  [0:18:56] BHA: We'll be back with another new episode in a few weeks. In the meantime, send your questions, comments and episode ideas to podcast@bucknell.edu. We read every note you send.

  [0:19:07] BT: Finally, you're invited to follow Bucknell on your favorite social media apps. Just look for @BucknellU on Instagram, Facebook, X, YouTube and TikTok. You can also follow our student-run Instagram account, which is, @iamraybucknell.

  [0:19:25] BHA: until next time, keep reaching for your dreams and your dream school.

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