Episode 10: A Guide to Transferring Colleges

Episode 10 Transcript

• Episode 10 Transcript

  [00:00:17] BW: Welcome to the 10th episode of College Admissions Insider. Whether you've listened to all 10 or are checking us out for the first time, we're glad you're here. This is the podcast where we talk to real college admissions counselors to bring you expert advice for each phase of your college search. I’m Bryan Wendell from Bucknell University.

  [00:00:38] BT: And I’m Brooke Thames, also from Bucknell University. Our goal is to cut through all the fluff to give you everything you need to start, continue or complete college search, and do it in 30 minutes or less.

  [00:00:48] BW: That's right. Now, Brooke, so far we've covered a bunch of the steps leading up to submitting your college application, but today we're going to switch gears a little bit.

  [00:00:57] BT: Yes, we are going to talk about something that happens or could happen after you've already been in college for a little bit, a couple of years, and that is transferring schools.

  [00:01:07] BW: So, how is the process of applying to transfer different from the first-year application journey, and what are schools looking for in prospective transfer students, and what are some things we need to watch out for along the way?

  [00:01:20] BT: To help us break all of that down, we've invited Caro Mercado, Bucknell's associate dean of admissions and the professional in charge of Bucknell's transfer program. Welcome to the podcast, Caro.

  [00:01:30] CM: Thank you, Brooke. Greetings to both of you. Thank you so much for inviting me to participate in today's podcast. I’m excited to be here and to share my experiences in working with transfer students at Bucknell.

  [00:01:43] BW: We're excited to have you, and just thanks for all the work that you do for this University. I kind of want to start with what seems like a simple question, but I’m guessing has a pretty complex answer: Why would someone want to transfer colleges?

  [00:01:57] CM: Well, there are a lot of reasons that go into a student deciding to transfer from one institution to the other, and I often say that it's very individual for any student. There are several reasons why a student might choose to transfer institutions, and among the reasons, generally, are they are a second-semester first-year student who may have decided that their first choice institution wasn't a good fit for them. It might be an adult learner or a non-traditional student seeking to complete a degree. So, they may have started out let's say at an institution or a community college initially and then decided that, “Okay, I’m ready to pursue perhaps an institution that offers a little bit more diversity in programs, rigor in the course work.” And they're also seeking to complete a degree.

  We also find in particular here at Bucknell that we work with many students who are part of a partner program we offer that are completing an associate's degree and, again, are seeking to complete their four-year degree. You may also see part-time students at institutions who've decided that now they want to undertake a full-time degree, and as such, they would be considered a transfer student.

  I think there are general reasons, again, why students elect to transfer. For some, as I mentioned, it could be a poor academic fit at their current institution. Perhaps the major that they were pursuing was not something that really felt good to them. It could be the reputation of the school that they're currently attending, and they want to go to a different institution. Time to degree — perhaps they're finding that due to some of the requirements that they have to complete, it may take them longer to complete their degree, and so they don't want to spend either the time or expense to do so. And there can be just a whole host of other reasons.

  I think oftentimes too, among the students that I work with, sometimes it's the location of the school that they're currently attending. They chose the school, they thought it was great at the time, and then upon being there, they've decided that it doesn't work for them anymore. Perhaps they're at a large institution and want to go to a smaller institution. Perhaps they're finding that the co-curricular experience isn't as robust or diverse as they would like. The student body could be another reason, proximity to home. There are a whole host of different reasons for that.

  I think for a lot of students too, it's the financial consideration. Perhaps they are going to an institution that has limited their availability of aid or has become too expensive, so they may like to go to a less expensive institution. And I often find, too, there's a backdoor approach for a lot of students. So, perhaps they did apply to one institution, did not get in as a first-year student, and so they really want to complete their degree there. So they're electing to apply as a transfer so that they can enter and complete their degree at their institution of choice.

  [00:05:04] BT: Now there are different types of schools that students can transfer from, right? Might be coming from two-year community colleges or even transferring from a four-year college that they started at and kind of want to make a change. And so, what are some of the procedural differences between transferring between those different types of schools?

  [00:05:21] CM: Sure. And I think there are so many different schools out there. I know at Bucknell we oftentimes see students transferring let's say from a military academy and wanting to go to a liberal arts institution. We have students again who partner with us through a community college program we offer. We also see students who are currently at a four-year institution and are looking for something different. And so I think every institution really maintains their own procedures in assisting students with the transfer admission process.

  Typically, students who are transferring from a two-year community college may be working towards an associate's degree, their two-year degree, which positions them very well to then seek to complete a four-year degree at a four-year institution. Community colleges are a great option for students to begin their college journey to test out the waters, perhaps pursue various interests before settling on a course of study that they are really interested in. Also, community colleges present a really economical choice if you're undecided and are not sure what you want to pursue as a course of study.

  So, for students who are currently enrolled at a four-year institution, again, for all the reasons I enumerated before, they may determine that their first-choice college was not their best choice and decide to go somewhere else to complete their degree. So there's a lot of diversity I feel among students who seek to transfer. And because the choice to do so is so individualized, it really is what they're hoping to gain from a four-year experience that is really going to determine their success and their satisfaction.

  [00:07:07] BW: So, there's a lot out there about the application process for first-year students, and it's something that we've covered on this podcast quite a bit. Is that process different for transfer students, and in what ways does it differ?

  [00:07:20] CM: Sure. Well, I would say the application process very similarly for first-year students. For transfer students can be very similar depending on the school that you are seeking to transfer to. So, for instance, if you are using a standard application like the Common Application, which tends to be the universal application for many schools, that particular application has different dimensions that it will solicit from a student to complete different than a first-year student. If you're applying via an institutions, application one that they've created, again, they may be soliciting information very differently than they would for a first-year student. And part of the reason is because transfer students have already undertaken the application process to be admitted as a first-year student. So, there's experience there. There's knowledge there, and there isn't as much perhaps unknown information that is needed by an institution unlike with a first-year student who's starting out for the first time. They've earned college credits. So, there's evidence there that a university or college will utilize to help assess their readiness to come into their institution.

  And so for the most part, generally speaking, most institutions will seek certain documentation to validate a student's ability to transfer to their institution. And so beyond just an application, you are also required to submit, usually, a high school transcript, a college transcript from any institution that you've taken credits from. Some institutions will require you to submit syllabi in addition to the transcripts so that they can assess what the course entailed, the degree of rigor that the course provided to the student, as well as just what were some standard assessment tools used for that particular college course.

  Typically, many institutions will require a current faculty’s letter of recommendation or evaluation. Again, I think from my own perspective, I think it's really important that you solicit one from a faculty member in the area of study you're seeking to pursue. This helps not only the institution but the department to assess your ability to be successful in a particular course.

  And then for some other schools, they may seek evidence of your engagement at that institution. What have you done while you've been a student there? So, for instance, if you've been part of an athletic endeavor, if you've been part of a club or an organization, have you done internships? Are you working? Are you an adult learner and maybe caring for a family, and are working part-time or full-time while you're obtaining your degree? So, all of this provides some really great information for an institution to assess so that they can evaluate not only your ability to manage the coursework at their institution but then also how are you going to contribute to the overall campus community and environment.

  [00:10:32] BW: Caro, can I ask one quick follow-up on that? I’m familiar with the common app and the Coalition App from a first-year student perspective. But for transfer students, is it as simple as selecting multiple institutions that you're interested in transferring to, or is each process going to be drastically different across multiple schools?

  [00:10:51] CM: I think that's a great question. Yes, I mean very similarly, Common Application, Coalition Application have embedded in their process already for you to be able to identify multiple schools, and to have your application submitted therein. Again, if you're selecting to transfer to an institution perhaps that doesn't use one of those two standardized applications, it may just be a matter of you going to that institution's website and seeing what they need you to submit. Usually, large public institutions have a generalized application process for their institution, and it's less complicated or perhaps doesn't ask as much as the Common Application may or the Coalition Application may. But particularly speaking, I think for a student who's really researching and doing their homework as to what institution would be best suited for them, they'll be able to determine that.

  [00:11:46] BT: And when it comes to submitting the application and kind of tossing it on that pile, what does that pool look like in general for transfer students? Does it look different than, say, a pool of first-year students? Is it more competitive or less? And is there anything that transfer applicants can do to make themselves stand out in that process?

  [00:12:03] CM: Sure. Well, I would say…And I’m going to use Bucknell as an example, because we are a smaller institution. We generally do not recruit transfer students unlike some other institutions, but we do receive a lot of applications from students who want to obtain their degree from Bucknell. And so, for us, our pool of applicants will be very diverse, very in range in terms of, again, the population demographics that I identified earlier. I would say that among the pool of applications that we receive, we are only going to be able to take a smaller percentage of those applicants simply because of the nature of our school.

  So, for instance, if I can share, we have some really popular programs here. For instance, our engineering program is very prolific. It has great programs. It offers students wonderful opportunities. However, because of its popularity, it limits the number of students that we can take on an annual basis in the transfer process because there are no seats available in those respective majors. At other institutions, transfer students may make up a key percentage of their student body. Therefore, part of their admission processes may take into account a percentage of transfer students in any given semester or any given year. And so I think it's really individual for the institution and how they manage their transfer admission process and then incoming transfer population.

  Certainly, there are other things that factor into the number of students that can come into an institution as a transfer. Obviously, housing is a consideration. The degree program that they're seeking may be able to accommodate more students than less students. And so, again, I think my best advice to any student who's considering transferring is to really do your homework. Look into what the institution is looking for. What is the degree of competitiveness, let's say, that an institution may have? What are their retention rates? A school that has a great retention rate like Bucknell is not going to necessarily be able to afford a lot of students admission into certain programs. Other institutions see transfer students as a key part of their institutional population. And so, again, factor in the need to recruit and admit them.

  [00:14:44] BW: So kind of building off that, once a student makes the decision that they do want to transfer, whether that was the plan all along after a two-year community college program or they found out, like you were saying earlier, that their current school isn't the right fit…Once they make that decision, is there something that they can do in college to really increase their chances of getting into some of these really competitive programs with very few slots for transfer students?

  [00:15:09] CM: Absolutely. And I think, as I stated, that I think part of assessing readiness to transfer. And a student, again, should really think about why they want to undertake a transfer process. Because very similar to like the first-year process, it involves a lot of decision making. It involves preparation to transition to a new school environment. It may require student to think about transitioning states. And so I think doing their homework is really going to be important to really ascertain the reason why they want to transfer.

  The other thing I would say is taking a deep dive and looking at their performance at their current institution. That has a great deal of influence in how a new institution is going to evaluate them. So, taking into consideration how successful they've been in their requisite or foundational coursework, which would be evidenced by their current grade point average as well as a departmental grade point average.

  Most students will take, I think, for granted that they might be unhappy at their other institution and think that the grass is greener on the other side. And so they may not take into consideration, are they competitive for the school that they're seeking admission or the program that they're seeking admission? So, again, your GPA serves as a baseline for many institutions. Typically, most institutions will look at a grade point average of a 3.0 and above as meeting their requirement for transfer. But the department might actually have a higher GPA that they're looking at before they will accept a student into their program.

  The other thing that I would encourage students to really consider, especially if they've entered their first institution as an undecided or an undeclared major, is to assess what will be required of them in the course of study that they want to pursue at the new institution. So, will there be certain elements that they have to complete to earn that degree, for instance a foreign language? Do they have to also undertake a foreign language to complete that degree? Do they have to….for instance, let's say a student who is pursuing education. What degree of actual or experiential learning goes into earning the degree? Will that entail then taking additional semesters to have to complete that in order to complete those additional requirements? Students oftentimes, by the time that they transfer for instance, if they are a rising junior with only, let's say, two years or four semesters to complete before completing their degree need to take into consideration, will this course of study also require you to complete an internship? Do you want to study abroad? There are other things that go into the college experience that extends beyond just taking classes and earning a degree. Again, all of those things go into making that ultimate decision and taking measures to transfer.

  [00:18:26] BT: Yeah, for sure. And something we talked about in an earlier episode on our podcast is kind of the role that parents play as a big source of support for anyone applying to college and starting that journey. And so what can parents do for their transfer students to help them through the process of kind of making that change?

  [00:18:41] CM: Sure, of course. I think from my perspective, I see parents as partners of their student’s academic success. And so, you know, they provide a great deal of support in their student’s academic progress. Certainly, many students have been awaiting this stage in their child's life with the hopes of them completing college successfully and going on to a great career thereafter. But I also see parents as a source of not only both emotional and financial support, but also, they offer inspiration and encouragement to their student’s higher educational pursuits. And so I can speak as a parent myself. I try to let my children explore their options, assess their readiness to undertake a particular endeavor and decide for themselves what they are passionate about, what they want to dedicate towards their professional pursuits.

  And I think oftentimes students feel at a crossroads because they've gone through the process of applying to a college. They've gotten in. They began their course of study with a lot of fanfare, and then came to the realization that this isn't what they signed up for. And so a parent is part of that process. They're along for that ride and they've been the cheerleader in the background helping their student initially in that decision-making process.

  And so I think for some students there might be disappointment. And, certainly, for families too there might be a disappointment. Let's say a child decided to go to their parent’s alma mater, and then just found like that has been bred in them throughout their entire life, and now they're like, “Yeah, this isn't what I really wanted for myself.” And there might again be that shared disappointment. However, I think parents play a really important role in helping their son or daughter decide where they ultimately will be successful.

  We know that students over the course of their college career may undertake several courses of study before they land on one that they're passionate about. So I think my best advice to a parent would be to understand that this is part of the student developmental process. It's part of their child's emerging adulthood. And so, certainly, generationally, students have very different opinions of how they want to approach their college education. And so I think the best thing for a parent to do is to really have an honest conversation. Help support them in that decision-making and ultimately continue their role as a cheerleader for their student’s ultimate success.

  [00:21:23] BW: And some of that success isn't just academic. It's also the social success, I guess you could call it, which is finding your people once you get to that new school, even though you're starting in a lot of cases as a sophomore or a junior, and you didn't go through the first-year orientation with, you know, all these other students. So, is that a valid concern that transfer students might be worried about fitting in and finding their place? And if so, how might they overcome that?

  [00:21:49] CM: No, I think it's a really valid concern. And I think for a lot of students, again, having undergone that tremendous decision-making process of electing a school. And I often say it's sort of like trying on a coat: you try it on and see if it fits well. And then to encounter that it's not meeting your expectations can be really, really — for some students — really heartbreaking. And so, again, it takes a lot of courage and fortitude to say, “Okay, I’m going to do this one more time, and I’m going to try on a new coat.” And they go out and try to find, as I often say, their tribe at this new institution.

  And so it can be really challenging to find your place in an already established environment. Typically, the first year is really core to a student finding their friend group, finding people who have shared interests as well as navigating kind of those curricular and co-curricular experiences that really shape a successful college experience. And so that is going to take time and effort just as it did in the first-year experience. But I ultimately think that if a student, again, has made this choice, has done their homework in assessing the viability of a new institution by putting themselves out there, trying to get to know other people, networking within their classes. Again, I see transfer students as having a lot of experience in doing that. And so they’ve proven to be successful in being able to navigate undulating waters, if you will. Getting to know their faculty, getting involved in clubs and organizations or enterprises that they feel fulfilled in can go a long way in helping them adjust and get acclimated to a new institution.

  [00:23:42] BT: And are there any particular places even, I guess, in that initial search process of finding a school that a student might want to transfer to where they can get an assessment of the different resources and the different kind of social support that there is for transfer students at their new institution, so they can make sure it will be as socially successful for them as academically?

  [00:24:00] CM: Well, sure. I mean every institution has an active website. And so usually that's the go-to place that students initially start out. And every institution is going to present themselves as being warm welcoming, active, diverse — you name it. And I think the real key is to talk to folks. If you know people who are already attending that institution to assess what their experience has been.

  Certainly, visiting a campus I think is really key to getting a feel for it. So being able to visit it is optimal. Obviously, we're in a global pandemic right now that may preclude students from actually going to visit in person. But I think talking to personnel on the ground is important. Perhaps participating in virtual events where you can ask questions and really ask, ideally, students who might be involved in those virtual sessions what their experiences have been.

  I think it's an important decision, and going to college is an investment. It's not an inexpensive experience. And so I think it's important for students to really analyze what they need to feel comfortable, to feel satisfied and happy along with getting what they need out of a curricular experience as well. So yeah, I think that that's going to be an important part of the decision-making process.

  [00:25:24] BT: Yeah. Yeah, definitely. And another, I guess, big part of the decision-making process and the search process is applying and receiving financial aid, which can be complicated enough on its own when you're doing it for the first time. But can it be even more complex for transfer students? What does that process look like?

  [00:25:40] CM: Well, very similar to the first-year experience, transfer students who are seeking financial aid should definitely go through the process of applying through the normal channels, such as the FAFSA. And for some institutions, they require some additional information like the CSS profile, and Bucknell is one of those institutions. And so, depending on the cost of attendance, I think it's an important conversation to have with officials at the office of financial aid for whatever institution you're seeking to apply to. They manage different processes as well as stipulations as to who may be eligible to receive both institutional aid and federal financial aid.

  And so the federal government maintains certain guidelines as it pertains to time to degree and satisfactory academic progress in making federal financial dollars available to someone with their college education. But in terms of institutional aid or grants, it's an important conversation to have to see if the institution you're seeking to transfer to does afford transfer students equal access to those monies. Some may, some may not. Some may limit the number of scholarships that may be available to a particular transfer student.

  There are also burgeoning national programs that are really cognizant of student’s desire to transfer. So, for instance, Phi Theta Kappa is a national organization that affords transfer student scholarship monies. It's typically an honor society, so students need to have met a certain grade point average to be both inducted into the honorary but also then to be eligible for transfer scholarships.

  The Jack Kent Cooke Foundation is another great resource that offers monies for students who are seeking to transfer. So I think, again, not limiting yourself to just looking at institutional resources to help fund your education, but also doing, again, some additional footwork to see what external resources might be available for additional financial aid.

  I think it's prudent, again, to contact the requisite offices that manage aid and figuring out what the cost will look like before applying is important too. So I mentioned earlier, let's say a student is living out in California and wants to come to the East Coast. Well, there are additional costs that are going to be added into pursuing a degree on the East Coast, travel costs, perhaps outfitting yourself with a new wardrobe to deal with New England weather. So these are all pertinent factors that go into determining how much your college education ultimately is going to cost beyond just paying tuition, room and board, fees, etc.

  [00:28:36] BW: And another consideration in that cost is the assumption that some or all of your credits from that first institution are going to transfer over, right? Because nobody wants to return to square one. So how do schools determine which credits are going to be eligible to transfer and which — we hope that doesn't happen — but which might just be lost entirely?

  [00:28:56] CM: Indeed. Well, I will say that transference of credits is part of the transfer application consideration. And so, typically, students will submit their transcript, and their transcript will undergo a review of courses by, typically, the registrar's office at a new institution. They are responsible for signing credit for classes already undertaken. In addition, a student's transcript may undergo review by the department chair of the program that a student is seeking to gain entrance into, or even the college dean's office. And, certainly, the admissions office will also do a review of transferability of courses in advance of sending it forward to those requisite offices.

  I have found that, oftentimes, what goes into a course review is the degree to which that course matches with the pre-existing course at the institution you're transferring to. So every first-year curriculum will have certain courses that are necessary to lay the foundation for a major. And so for a student to be able to ascertain if they have completed those requisite courses is going to be really important.

  In addition, oftentimes, as a first-year student, they may have had AP courses, advanced placement credits, applied to their first year set of courses. And so that will also be reviewed as part of the process. But, typically, for transfer students, what an institution is going to be looking at is the rigor of the class. How it fits into a set curriculum? To what extent that course is relevant to the pursuit of the degree? So, oftentimes, credits may be evaluated for the specific major, or they may be evaluated as they fit into the general requirements that a student may need to complete in order to graduate.

  And so I often find that there are certain classes that meet that requirement and some that don't. So a good example might be someone who, let's say, was pursuing a major at their institution that is not offered at their new institution. And so many times they've taken classes that can't be transferred because that particular major doesn't exist at the new institution.

  Another example may be a related major, for instance. This is a great one that I often see at Bucknell, is kinesiology. Students have pursued kinesiology. It is typically within the physical sciences, maybe related to biology. But, typically, those types of classes don't meet the foundation for a biology major at an institution. It may not necessarily be counted or be able to be applied for anything.

  Again, having a conversation with the institutions going to be core to understanding that. Oftentimes, for instance, with community college students, they have taken what are typically called general studies classes, and I often equate this to the buffet. They've taken classes just to see how it fits, how they like it, and again may not have been working necessarily towards an established major or course of study. And so, oftentimes, then those classes don't apply for a major that they may be seeking at the new institution.

  So again, your registrar's office, your dean's office, your department office will help you navigate what it may look like before you apply. So again, I strongly encourage students to do that before they experience additional headaches in the process.

  [00:32:54] BT: Yeah. All this has been such great like in detailed advice. I’m so happy that we got the opportunity to have you want to talk about all of this, Caro. But if there's one kind of biggest and best piece of advice that you would give to someone who's considering a transfer, what would that be?

  [00:33:08] CM: Well, and I've been saying it all along, do your homework. Really investigate the institution that you're seeking to transfer to. Because by not doing so, you may encounter some challenges in the application process. You may spend a lot of time basically spinning your wheels and then find yourself caught up in either missing deadlines, not having your materials processed well in advance of those deadlines.

  So, for instance, letters of recommendation. Your faculty at your institution are busy people. So planning out kind of when you need to receive, let's say, a letter of recommendation to help support your finished application is going to be essential.

  Unlike the first-year application process, many students begin that their junior year and they already have that emotion and have afforded themselves, really over the course of one year, to get ready to apply to college. When you're transferring, that is not necessarily the case. So give yourself the time and the space that you need to be organized and to get all the requisite information that you're going to need. And I would say most institutions are happy to provide you kind of a checklist to help keep you on time and organized.

  The other thing I would just add is, again, definitely try to visit the location that you're seeking your transfer to. I can't under-emphasize that visiting a campus takes on a whole different perspective than just seeing it online. So it's a really important part of that decision making process.

  [00:35:21] BT: Yeah, I imagine that patience, and time management, and organization are very much the name of the game in this kind of situation. That's good advice.

  [00:35:28] CM: Great, thank you.

  [00:35:29] CM: And courage, too, like you were saying, because it is putting yourself out there to transfer schools. And reaching out to that support is great. And I just hope that every school, wherever the students are transferring to or considering transferring to, has their own Caro or someone who's like so supportive and helpful, because this has been excellent. And we just want to thank you. That's going to wrap up this episode College Admissions Insider.

  [00:35:53] BW: Caro, it's been great. Thanks for sharing your advice and perspective.

  [00:35:55] CM: Thank you so much. And again, I've worked with transfer students all of my career at many different institutions, and the process very much is very similar at every institution I've worked for. So I strongly encourage students to, again, seek your happiness and fulfillment in your college education and experience. A wise person once told me, “There's no point in being miserable when some other place could really make you happy.”

  [00:36:26] BT: Yeah. Yeah, I love that. Thanks again, Caro. And thanks to you all out there who are listening. Be sure to share and subscribe so you don't miss an episode. We release a new episode every other Monday.

  [00:36:37] BW: And we're looking for a new topic idea. So if you have any, email podcast@bucknell.edu, and your question, or idea and even your name, if you'd like us to use it, might appear in a future show.

  [00:36:48] BT: And if you're interested in learning more about applying to Bucknell as a first-year or transfer student, head over to bucknell.edu/apply. And we have added that link in the show notes as well.

  [00:36:59] BW: Thanks for listening to College Admissions Insider, and we will see you next time.